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TechnoMancer
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 08:10:45 PM »

ok Io is slow, but very very beautiful

if you want speed why not just embed CINT, its a C interpreter
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TechnoMancer
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2009, 08:18:41 PM »

also a JIT can make stuff slower in some cases
it is possible that it will take longer to compile the code than it would have to run it in the interpreter
do you have any idea of what languages might meet your requirements?
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TechnoMancer
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2009, 08:31:22 PM »

sorry abotu arguing, but if you spend all your time thinking of what you need and never do anything it would be better to just pick a scripting language and be cleaver to make it work right
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basara
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 05:14:11 PM »

Quad post! Cheesy

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if you are using fixed point for the simulation then this should be only in ht engine and have minimal effect on the language as it woudl be slow to write the physics in the scripting language
The plan was/is to do have most/all of the particle physics completelly scripted Smiley

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you can make lua use something other than double for numbers you know
Yes, I do know. Glip made a test engine thingy using lua with integers instead of doubles. However, there is no types, which means nothing checks for errors when you incorrectly add an integer number with a fixed point number, nothing warns you when you initialize a fixed point with an integer, etc.
I made a simple game with it, the speed was ok, but it didnt do any prediction. Writing it was quite painful as it was amazingly error prone.

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could someone add a different scripting language if they wished?
I dont know what you mean here :O

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also this kind of networking is fine, but you shoudl still sync things periodically
Expand on why you think this is needed.

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ok Io is slow, but very very beautiful
I agree, its nice.

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if you want speed why not just embed CINT, its a C interpreter
I dont know much about CINT, but if its an interpreter then its unlikely fast. I also wouldnt want C/C++ as a scripting language. :O
The scripting language should also be sandboxable.

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also a JIT can make stuff slower in some cases
it is possible that it will take longer to compile the code than it would have to run it in the interpreter
JITs make number crunching fast, which is what I think is needed.
Compilation of the code will be done only once. So, maybe if its for a piece of code that runs a single time, then it miight be slow, but thats not where the bottlenecks will be.

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do you have any idea of what languages might meet your requirements?
A custom made language which Glip ( or I or Glip and I ) will make someday. Our current plan is to make a frontend compiler for llvm of our own language, then embed the llvm jit compiler in gusanos 1.0.
With this plan in mind I have already made a simple parser for a language that would fit the requirements. I got a little stuck on the compilation phase and then stopped working on it but I plan to come back to it someday.

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sorry abotu arguing, but if you spend all your time thinking of what you need and never do anything it would be better to just pick a scripting language and be cleaver to make it work right
No problems with argument Smiley If you want to discuss it with both Glip and I more directly, you could join #liero @ irc.quakenet.net
A simplified version of the gusanos 1.0 plan could be made, but with the greater plan in mind a simpler thing kinda fails to motivate me Sad
Also both gliptic and I now have a job, our free time is reduced greatly compared to some years ago.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 05:38:55 PM by basara » Logged
Gliptic
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2009, 10:10:02 AM »

Static typing is required for my sanity, correctness and performance with current compilation technology. JIT is absolutely essential, as virtually the whole game will be written in this language. It also opens up for things like partial evaluation, which I think could benefit particle simulation performance among other things.

CINT is extremely slow and it's uh.. C, which makes no sense as we want to get away from C/C++. We could in theory use libtcc to compile C and load at runtime, but C isn't nice nor safe. There is no way to make some slow language work and not getting stuck making lots of bindings and writing a lot of things in C/C++ anyway, which is what we want to avoid. It's not terribly difficult to make an LLVM front-end that meets our needs, so that's probably what we'll end up doing.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 10:19:44 AM by Gliptic » Logged
TechnoMancer
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 12:48:58 AM »

i am somewhat interested in compilers and languages so maybe i could help a little but i also get distracted easily and tend to not finish anything so i may be unhelpful
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DaRo
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 10:15:00 AM »

You will be very helpfull because basara is lazy and he will not finish g1.0 before 2050 ;P
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sindalf
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 12:22:35 PM »

By the time it's 2050, will have liero 3D  Wink
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problematic
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2009, 05:31:21 PM »

Clonk rage is where its at for modding. Game is still updated and doesn't suffer the restrictions of gusanos.
It's not as fast, or quite as wieldly, but is much more advanced. I'd still like to work on gusanos.. but 3 years and not a peep of 1.0 Angry
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basara
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2009, 12:28:29 PM »

sorry Sad
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albert
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2009, 01:24:08 PM »

I also thought about using LLVM in OpenLieroX. Maybe it is possible to write a Lua compiler which compiles to LLVM bytecode?
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TechnoMancer
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 08:00:41 PM »

you dont need to several (at least two) lua -> llvm systems already exist try googleing llvm lua or i think one is called llvm-lua
I personally think that what basara wants to do for gusanos 1.0 is a little crazy
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Fum
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2010, 08:16:41 AM »

I know this may sound like a bad idea for some players who use older PCs, but maybe just go ahead and try doing 1.0 is one of the slower languages and hope that new 3GHz processors will be able to render that far ahead?
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basara
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« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2010, 06:22:23 PM »

LuaJit2 is looking really promising lately. The language is not static typed, but the speed part seems to be there.
Also Gliptic has found a way to make deterministic floating point operations on several systems. So there is some hope into having a deterministic lua running with floating point numbers.

The language of choice should be a deterministic and speedy one, lua could end up being that language.

In other news, yesterday jonny and I implemented the first prototype for the prediction method that gusanos 1.0 would (maybe) use when its made. The results in my opinion were quite satisfying.
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DaRo
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2010, 03:41:12 AM »

So when premier of g1.0 ? Roll Eyes
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